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Problem 742: Rodolfo Riva - Helpmate
rodolfo.riva(19.06.2016) Here is the Cyclic "Rope theme" in Meredith by Rodolfo Riva! He rightly mentions that the real challenge will be to do it H#2.5 or more.
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
742. Rodolfo Riva (Italy)
19.06.2016 
745
H#2           3 Sol.         (7+4) 
 
1.Sf7 Rd7 2.Sxe5 Rd4#
1.Rf4 Be8 2.Rxf5 Bc6#
1.Be2 Sa2 2.Bd3 Sc3#
 
Elegant example without capture mates! (Seetharaman)
 
 

Comments  

 
+1 #1 Miodrag Mladenovic 2016-06-19 09:07
Problem is correct even without bRg4 (instead of 1.Rf4 then 1.Bg4 Be8 2.Bf5 Bc6#). However it looks like author intentionally place rook to achieve cycle of blocking and mating pieces. Not sure if this is justifying an extra piece.
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+2 #2 Vitaly Medintsev 2016-06-19 10:24
In my opinion, this problem has a serious constructional defect - wSc1 is superfluous in the solution ending with Rd4#
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+1 #3 Rodolfo Riva 2016-06-19 11:25
Vitaly,
many thanks for the hint. The following version is better:

8/2R5/4S2r/2PP4/2k5/2P3s1/bK3S2/8 (7+4)

h#2 3 solutions
1.Ba1, Se4 2.Bd3, Sd6#
1.Se4, Rb7 2.Sxc5, Rb4#
1.Rh5, Bc8 2.Rxd5, Ba6#
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+1 #4 Vitaly Medintsev 2016-06-19 12:46
Rodolfo, I assume there is something wrong with FEN - my solving program displays 8 solutions :-)
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+1 #5 Seetharaman Kalyan 2016-06-19 12:46
Quoting Vitaly Medintsev:
In my opinion, this problem has a serious constructional defect - wSc1 is superfluous in the solution ending with Rd4#

Thanks Vitaly Medintsev. I too failed to notice this. Here is the diagram for Rodolfo's improved version.


H#2 3 Sols.
1.Ba1, Se4 2.Bd3, Sd6#
1.Se4, Rb7 2.Sxc5, Rb4#
1.Rh5, Bc8 2.Rxd5, Ba6#
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+1 #6 Rodolfo Riva 2016-06-19 13:08
I'm very sorry, there was a lapsus (lupus?) with the FEN. Correct is:

8/2R5/4B2r/2PP4/2k5/2P3s1/bK3S2/8 /7+4)

Unchanged solutions.
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+1 #7 Vitaly Medintsev 2016-06-19 13:50
I see the same defect in the solution ending with Ba6# - wSf2 is superfluous since square d3 is under roentgen attack of wBa6
The idea is good - a combination of cyclic "Rope theme" with Bukovinskaya theme
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+2 #8 Seetharaman Kalyan 2016-06-19 14:56
Quoting Miodrag Mladenovic:
Problem is correct even without bRg4 (instead of 1.Rf4 then 1.Bg4 Be8 2.Bf5 Bc6#). However it looks like author intentionally place rook to achieve cycle of blocking and mating pieces. Not sure if this is justifying an extra piece.

Misha you have asked an interesting question.
Actually the idea can be shown using a single black piece! (Of course as Vitaly points out this version also has that defect of WS being idle in one phase).
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+1 #9 Abdelaziz 2016-06-19 16:52
2R4r/8/4B3/2PP4/2kp4/P5s1/bK3S2/8
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+2 #10 Rodolfo Riva 2016-06-19 16:59
To #7

OK Vitaly, the best way is:

2R1r3/8/4B3/2PP4/2kp4/P5s1/bK3S2/8 (7+5)

1.Bb1, Se4 2.Bd3, Sd6#
1.Se4, Rb8 2.Sxc5, Rb4#
1.Rd8, Bf5 2.Rxd5, Bd3#
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+2 #11 Rodolfo Riva 2016-06-19 17:08
To #8

Nice version with good use of the wK.
The question asked by Misha is interesting but not always relevant: not to the Rope theme or other themes that require a number of pieces that may seem superfluous. If you want to make a problem with only 3 piece you can do it, good fun.
Anyhow my version is not anticipated (hopefully) and of course it is possible to extrapolate a scheme that can be used to more or less complex versions.
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+3 #12 Kostas Prentos 2016-06-19 17:54
It seems to me that Misha's post #1 makes a valid point for the content of the Azemmour originals, but also, for any other helpmate: A black piece that is added only to comply with the thematic requirement does not justify its use. It will be an interesting exercise and a really hard work for the judge to spot such weaknesses in a quick composing tourney.

Another point that needs to be made: Even though there is no special request to not publish originals with the same theme as that of a running formal tourney (like in the case of the WCCT), it makes sense and is a good gesture to refrain from publishing new originals. Unfortunately, Abdelaziz started this trend with No.739, but several other originals and versions followed. Azemmour is not a tourney in whose organization I am involved, but it seems unpleasant for potential participants (like me) to see this website be used as a public workshop for throwing out ideas. For what it's worth, each of these suggestions counts as an original publication and a possible anticipation to any entry for the Azemmour tourney.
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+2 #13 Seetharaman Kalyan 2016-06-19 18:35
You do have a valid point Kostas Prentos.

Abdelaziz's original I assumed to be another illustrative example. Perhaps Rodolfo thought his original was elementary.

I will refrain from publishing any more originals of the theme. Abdelaziz has sent another example of doubling of the theme. I will return it to him.
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+2 #14 Rodolfo Riva 2016-06-19 19:32
Kostas, it seems that you have an original with only 3 pieces for the Azemmour Ty. :-)

As in the previous editions it will be a really hard work for the judge to spot weaknesses and good points in the entries.
The originals ( and some more or less economical versions) published on KoBulChess are only simple examples of the theme. For sure most of the entries will be more complex.
Some versions (as the 5+3 by Zalokotskij and Kolesnik) and the comments will be useful to the judge and participants about possible anticipations and reliability of the database regarding the (lack of) labels.
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+2 #15 Rauf Aliovsadzade 2016-06-19 20:10
Quoting Kostas Prentos:
It seems to me that Misha's post #1 makes a valid point for the content of the Azemmour originals, but also, for any other helpmate: A black piece that is added only to comply with the thematic requirement does not justify its use. It will be an interesting exercise and a really hard work for the judge to spot such weaknesses in a quick composing tourney.

Another point that needs to be made: Even though there is no special request to not publish originals with the same theme as that of a running formal tourney (like in the case of the WCCT), it makes sense and is a good gesture to refrain from publishing new originals. Unfortunately, Abdelaziz started this trend with No.739, but several other originals and versions followed. Azemmour is not a tourney in whose organization I am involved, but it seems unpleasant for potential participants (like me) to see this website be used as a public workshop for throwing out ideas. For what it's worth, each of these suggestions counts as an original publication and a possible anticipation to any entry for the Azemmour tourney.

Hello Kostas,
You are making a great point about possible anticipations!
Well...Nothing can be done-it has started!
By the way,your entries for the WCCT-10 are very good-I voted for them at the selection time.
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0 #16 Vitaly Medintsev 2016-06-19 20:21
#9 diagram
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+1 #17 Abdelaziz 2016-06-19 22:24
Just for information. I have 184 problems showed the theme :-) ( 173 h2 , 2 h2,5 and 9 h3 )
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+2 #18 Kostas Prentos 2016-06-19 22:38
Seetharaman, if Abdelaziz wants his new problem published, it is his own tourney and I don't see why you should not publish it. I don't think it is a good idea to publish new originals on a formal tourney theme, but it is not my place to forbid anyone from doing it.

Rauf, thank you for your comment. There is not much that can be done now. We had the same discussion in the past about the WCCT and the request to not publish new originals while the tournament was running. In this case, it is an "informal" formal tourney, so if the organizer thinks it is a good idea, then I am fine with it.

Rodolfo, I composed 2 originals for the Azemmour tourney a few weeks ago, as it was the first WCCC tourney with help play. The way things were going, I would not consider trying to compose any more, in fear of possible new anticipations that would appear during this time. That was the intention of my comment, to protect the tourney and maybe help other composers who think like me. You could have submitted your originals to the tourney, but you did not start this string of publications; therefore, you are not to blame.

In the meantime, Abdelaziz sent me an email explaining his reasons for the publication of 739. I will respect his choice of communication and reply to him in private. Let me just wish him a successful tourney.
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+1 #19 Rauf Aliovsadzade 2016-06-20 01:59
Rauf, thank you for your comment. There is not much that can be done now. We had the same discussion in the past about the WCCT and the request to not publish new originals while the tournament was running. In this case, it is an "informal" formal tourney, so if the organizer thinks it is a good idea, then I am fine with it.
---------------------
Kostas,
When in Serbia, say hi to my friends from Azerbaijan,please (though I am in constant touch with them).
Good luck in Serbia!
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+1 #20 Kostas Prentos 2016-06-20 14:20
Rauf, there is only one participant from Azerbaijan, so far: wccc2016.matplus.net/persons.php. I guess the members of the solving team have not been decided yet.

Thank you for the wishes. I will enjoy every minute of the week in Belgrade.
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