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		<title>Problem 289: Alexey Oganesyan - Helpmate</title>
		<description>Discuss Problem 289: Alexey Oganesyan - Helpmate</description>
		<link>http://kobulchess.com/en/problems/originals2013/413-alexey-oganesyan-helpmate.html</link>
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			<title>Sven-Hendrik Lossin says:</title>
			<link>http://kobulchess.com/en/problems/originals2013/413-alexey-oganesyan-helpmate.html#comment-801</link>
			<description><![CDATA[An interesting display. Pity that the effects are that expensive. The author must have fought a hard fight with the whole scheme.]]></description>
			<dc:creator>Sven-Hendrik Lossin</dc:creator>
			<pubDate>Mon, 30 Dec 2013 21:59:35 +0000</pubDate>
			<guid>http://kobulchess.com/en/problems/originals2013/413-alexey-oganesyan-helpmate.html#comment-801</guid>
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			<title>Nikola Predrag says:</title>
			<link>http://kobulchess.com/en/problems/originals2013/413-alexey-oganesyan-helpmate.html#comment-784</link>
			<description><![CDATA[So, Phoenix is not the intentionally chosen word (because of the known concept) but only a meaningless sequence of letters which mark the particular theme. Therefore I propose the sequence of letters "xineohP" for the reversed order of things. f,i,l,l,i,n,g,a,g,l,a,s,s ,... is reversible too :-) (hm, something like "anticipatory" firing of a battery is already in use, so I give up)]]></description>
			<dc:creator>Nikola Predrag</dc:creator>
			<pubDate>Thu, 19 Dec 2013 23:55:15 +0000</pubDate>
			<guid>http://kobulchess.com/en/problems/originals2013/413-alexey-oganesyan-helpmate.html#comment-784</guid>
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			<title>Nicolas Dupont says:</title>
			<link>http://kobulchess.com/en/problems/originals2013/413-alexey-oganesyan-helpmate.html#comment-783</link>
			<description><![CDATA[Note that it is more than a "Prenix", as the promoted Bishop goes to the square occupied by the original one. It looks better like a Pronkin and there is no more difficulty concerning the terminology as, in a Pronkin, the original piece can be captured after the promotion!]]></description>
			<dc:creator>Nicolas Dupont</dc:creator>
			<pubDate>Thu, 19 Dec 2013 21:09:21 +0000</pubDate>
			<guid>http://kobulchess.com/en/problems/originals2013/413-alexey-oganesyan-helpmate.html#comment-783</guid>
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			<title>Kostas Prentos says:</title>
			<link>http://kobulchess.com/en/problems/originals2013/413-alexey-oganesyan-helpmate.html#comment-782</link>
			<description><![CDATA[The glass example is not right, in this case. It requires an act and a consequence: The glass will be filled only if you do it in the right order. In the case we are discussing, we have two separate events: The promotion to a certain type of piece and the capture of a different piece. This can be done in either way. The term Phoenix, requires a specific order, but both ways are possible. What I am saying, is that if instead of Phoenix and its special meaning from mythology, we had a different name (say, Predrag), it would be easier to accept the rest. My whole argument is that both sequences of events are possible, and a name for the reversed order of Phoenix is acceptable. Whether we give it any value or not is a different story. My evaluation of the two (Phoenix and "Prenix") is not far apart; maybe a small edge in favour of Phoenix. Given a choice between naming the reversed order of Phoenix, or not. I would choose the former. Other than that, we agree.]]></description>
			<dc:creator>Kostas Prentos</dc:creator>
			<pubDate>Wed, 18 Dec 2013 18:14:38 +0000</pubDate>
			<guid>http://kobulchess.com/en/problems/originals2013/413-alexey-oganesyan-helpmate.html#comment-782</guid>
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			<title>Nikola Predrag says:</title>
			<link>http://kobulchess.com/en/problems/originals2013/413-alexey-oganesyan-helpmate.html#comment-781</link>
			<description><![CDATA[Kostas, misuse of the words is lesser evil. Misuse of the concepts is the danger. Nowadays, people became "familiar" with too many words with tragicomic misunderstanding of their true meaning. Place a glass under a faucet (A) and outpour 2dl of water (B). Call it filling a glass with water (X). How would you describe the term "anticipatory" X. I hope not the "anticipatory" or "reversed" filling a glass with water. Sacrifice and promotion can be reversed just as placing of a glass and pouring the water. But when there is a strict relation cause-result (or some purpose), the possible reversibility must be carefully questioned. Phoenix burns out to be reborn just as a glass is placed before the water is poured if you want to fill it.]]></description>
			<dc:creator>Nikola Predrag</dc:creator>
			<pubDate>Wed, 18 Dec 2013 02:53:28 +0000</pubDate>
			<guid>http://kobulchess.com/en/problems/originals2013/413-alexey-oganesyan-helpmate.html#comment-781</guid>
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			<title>Kostas Prentos says:</title>
			<link>http://kobulchess.com/en/problems/originals2013/413-alexey-oganesyan-helpmate.html#comment-780</link>
			<description><![CDATA[Nikola, for the sake of argument, let's ignore the {mythologically} charged word of Phoenix and say we have a sequence of events A and B. When A takes place before B, we have a specific theme, called X. How would you call the reversed sequence (B happening before A)? Anticipatory X (or reversed X) sounds like a good try to me. Now, suppose you have the term anticipatory X. How would you describe its meaning in relation to theme X? A reversed order of events would be the best guess. Anticipatory Phoenix does not mean much as a term or as a theme, but people would pretty much understand what it is, or what you are trying to describe if you use it.]]></description>
			<dc:creator>Kostas Prentos</dc:creator>
			<pubDate>Tue, 17 Dec 2013 20:29:13 +0000</pubDate>
			<guid>http://kobulchess.com/en/problems/originals2013/413-alexey-oganesyan-helpmate.html#comment-780</guid>
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			<title>Nikola Predrag says:</title>
			<link>http://kobulchess.com/en/problems/originals2013/413-alexey-oganesyan-helpmate.html#comment-779</link>
			<description><![CDATA[I do see why not "anticipatory phoenix", at least. Because it's wrong! Phoenix is already imprecise enough but at least it keeps the idea of a rebirth of the same (not duplicated) spirit in a new body. I don't like Prenix exactly because it reminds on Phoenix, but I can adjust to it just as to any meaningless word used for a name. Sell a house and for that money you buy a new one, that's Phoenix. Buy a new house on credit and pay it back when you sell the old one, that's Prenix - a loan (promotion). Well, there's obviously no difference, we are so very (mis)used to live on credit :-)]]></description>
			<dc:creator>Nikola Predrag</dc:creator>
			<pubDate>Tue, 17 Dec 2013 00:52:47 +0000</pubDate>
			<guid>http://kobulchess.com/en/problems/originals2013/413-alexey-oganesyan-helpmate.html#comment-779</guid>
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			<title>Kostas Prentos says:</title>
			<link>http://kobulchess.com/en/problems/originals2013/413-alexey-oganesyan-helpmate.html#comment-778</link>
			<description><![CDATA[I do not see why not. It certainly is not Phoenix, but there is a formal relation between the promotion and the capture of the original piece of the same type. Whether it is something important or not, it is a different story. I dare say that Phoenix itself is not a very important feature. For this type of effect, I like the term Prenix, which does not contain the word Phoenix, anyway; it only plays with it.]]></description>
			<dc:creator>Kostas Prentos</dc:creator>
			<pubDate>Mon, 16 Dec 2013 21:19:52 +0000</pubDate>
			<guid>http://kobulchess.com/en/problems/originals2013/413-alexey-oganesyan-helpmate.html#comment-778</guid>
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			<title>seetharaman says:</title>
			<link>http://kobulchess.com/en/problems/originals2013/413-alexey-oganesyan-helpmate.html#comment-776</link>
			<description><![CDATA[ You are right Nikola and Vitaly. Should not mix up this with Phoenix.]]></description>
			<dc:creator>seetharaman</dc:creator>
			<pubDate>Mon, 16 Dec 2013 08:25:42 +0000</pubDate>
			<guid>http://kobulchess.com/en/problems/originals2013/413-alexey-oganesyan-helpmate.html#comment-776</guid>
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			<title>Nikola Predrag says:</title>
			<link>http://kobulchess.com/en/problems/originals2013/413-alexey-oganesyan-helpmate.html#comment-775</link>
			<description><![CDATA[Shouldn't Phoenix arise from its own ashes? Here it is first a kind of cloning and later the annihilation of the original prototype. "anticipatory" phoenix might sound well to someone but ignoring the essence, downgrades the very point of a concept.]]></description>
			<dc:creator>Nikola Predrag</dc:creator>
			<pubDate>Sun, 15 Dec 2013 15:37:54 +0000</pubDate>
			<guid>http://kobulchess.com/en/problems/originals2013/413-alexey-oganesyan-helpmate.html#comment-775</guid>
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